Where there are wolves, there are ravens. Ravens follow wolves around a lot, mostly because they just seem to like them. They aren’t known to follow other predators and they prefer to eat with the wolves instead of alone. Source

wait are you telling me that wolves keep ravens as pets

cause this is the most goth thing ever since My Immortal

It would be an easier way for the raven’s to get food. And I bet the wolf doesn’t mind the companionship either.

it’s mutualism! Ravens circle ungulate herds and wolf packs, wolves see them, find the animal faster, kill the animal and open up the carcass(which ravens can’t peck through), and then the ravens eat and the nice juicy bits.

oh, and the pet anology is back-assward. ravens play with wolves. and more importantly, wolf pups. you know how animals raised together from a young age are super tolerant of one another? ravens exploit that to get better access to carcasses. 

yeah i was gonna say it sounds more like the ravens are keeping the wolves as pets

Ravens, and other crows, are some of the world’s most intelligent animals, passing tests even chimpanzees and some humans fail at. They use tools, they plan ahead, they can think in multiple steps and use their environments to get food. They’ve even been known to fashion tools such as hooks from metal wires and understand water displacement.

Wolves on the other hand are basically large wild dogs.

If anyone’s manipulating and using the other it’s the ravens.

What we can observe: animals coexisting.

What we assume: one animal is manipulating the other, the “smart” animals are taking advantage of the “dumb” ones; likening the ravens to the human role.

What we assumed wrong: that the human role with dogs was anything like the above detached decision to domesticate puppies. Current evidence implies that dogs had a larger role in their own domestication than humans did, and basically moved in with us first. But this doesn’t fit in with the Aryan caveman mythology of a survival-of-the-fittest paleolithic sociopath viewing prey as bags of meat on legs and other creatures as threats or possible resources on legs and women as wombs on legs. This was largely a Victorian reaction to Darwinism and attempt to contextualize a theory which described our own lack of divine specialness through the lens of human exceptionalism we refused to give up. This continues on today in the form of “evolutionary psychology,” which is mostly MRAs talking about how rape is a natural way to pursue one’s biological imperative when sexually frustrated.

What is likely given the limited evidence: neither ravens nor wolves have the power to imprison, control, or discipline the other. The ravens could leave and the wolves couldn’t stop them, and if the wolves didn’t like the ravens they could bite them in half. We have no evidence that this relationship is hierarchical, and no evidence that either would have the power to impose a hierarchy, and ravens brainwashing baby wolves to obey them is a bit more of a stretch than babies being universally adorable and everyone liking to play with them. It might acclimate them to their presence, but that still isn’t a hierarchical relationship, or necessarily a premeditated manipulation rather than something immediately rewarding. It is true that ravens are intelligent, but domination of other beings does not follow naturally from intelligence, and there’s no evidence that other species would see such a thing as rational. A tapeworm uses and manipulates other beings for its own benefit, and does not need intelligence to do it. Therefore intelligence and a parasitic nature can be seen to be two traits which may or may not coexist.

From the limited evidence, it would appear that the wolves and the ravens are friends, and that neither is subordinate to the other. That’s goth AND communist.

Bolded for emphasis.

It kills me the way the humans always feel the need to impose human-animal hierarchies onto animal-animal relationships. The very basis of this type of thought is the notion that humans (also theorized as white and male) should dominate animals and nature and are justified in doing so. It reinforces and justifies human exploitation of animals and of the planet because humans’ self-entitled “superior intelligence” gives them moral superiority and thus permission to do whatever the fuck they want to other creatures and to nature.

This is a Thing in biology, i.e. imposing white male (“human”, “cultural”) hierarchies on nature and animals in order to claim that structures like sexism, racism, or indeed speciesism are “natural”.

When you try to delineate “who dominates whom”, the ravens or the wolves, you are imposing human hierarchies on them and reinforcing the idea that structural hierarchies are naturally occurring.


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